Unreal Tournament Mods

Some people believe that it's cheating and/or "no fun" to take Impact-Jump shortcuts (e.g. Mazon). The same applies to so-called "Spawn-Camping" which is considered "cheap" by those who cannot cope with it. This new problem is actually the same old argument about camping that every veteran player will have dealt with before. So let me tell you something about it: If it shouldn't be done, it wouldn't be possible to do it, according to the rules. Breaking the rules is cheating, but taking shortcuts or doing something unexpected (and very sensible - after all, attack is the best defense, that's why "Spawn-Camping" is a useful strategy) is just innovative playing. And it's a lot of fun. Don't bitch and moan about it, instead try to learn and adapt, defend against "jumpers" and "campers". It's a playing style that some don't understand yet, so they are against it, but there's no reason why that would make it "illegal" to play like this. And if it would really be against the will of the designers, the problem would have been fixed with a patch already. If you don't want people to impact-jump, run a server that uses the Chainsaw mutator. If you don't want spawn-camping, run a server that uses a mutator that prevents it. I would even write one if some server admins would ask me about it. If you can't run a server of your own, deal with what you've got, become a better player by coping with situations like this. Remember, if the game and/or level designers wouldn't have allowed it, it would be impossible to do these things. And if you really want it changed, talk to the server admin and/or mod programmers and something might happen if there's really such a demand for some solution to this non-problem. I just found out about these shortcuts today, I'm especially proud of the ones in Frigate, but they're pretty hard to execute. Yeah, it's not easy, that's the challenge. So don't try to stop me from playing a style I enjoy, I won't stop you, either.

Some interesting observations: Impact-Jumping and Spawn-Camping is far from cheap. When you're going to impact-jump, you know very well how difficult it is to execute it properly, it's too easy to kill yourself (especially under lag). Even if you survive, you'll have lost health (or at least a lot of armor) so an enemy defender will make short work out of you if you don't watch out. So if it is a problem for your team to deal with jumpers, that only means your defense is seriously flawed, a single defender should be enough to stop impact jumpers. And Spawn-Camping is more of a Kamikaze attack than actual camping (which has a lot of different definitions, some mean sniping, some item hoarding) since it's impossible to sustain such an attack for long. Your only goal is to sacrifice your life to give your team some time by trying to confuse and distract the enemy. This works for both attackers and defenders, of course, so the attackers can use the same tactic to throw off the defense. Both game and level designers have allowed these playing styles, sometimes even encouraged it, by making the Impact Hammer a jumping device and by not granting special spawn protection. In fact, it's entirely up to the map designer if such behavior is possible or not, just add some auto cannons and/or team teleporters to prevent it (and every map maker should always consider the possibility of jumping with boots or hammer). By the way, if you ever played Facing Worlds CTF, you'll have experienced real "spawn-camping" (a sniper sitting in a secure spot across the area and picking off respawning players from afar) - but I'd not even call that camping myself, it's just sniping, and very encouraged (otherwise the players would spawn in a safer spot than outside of the base without any line-of-sight obstructions). So if players use the possibilities granted by the makers, that's fair play, and very proper. Don't complain to the players, if you want to change the rules, talk to the designers - but if you really know better than them: Why don't you make your own game (or level or modification) to see how well it is conceived?!

Finally, let me add something, some behavior I don't like: Anti-Team-Behavior. When some idiots block their own team, kill their teammates (by making them suicide, e.g. by shooting them off the train in HiSpeed, that is stupid), then that really drains all the fun from the game. Usually team killing is prevented (but team damage can be enabled - which is fun as long as the team is nice) but the make-em-suicide problem is always a possibility. What do I do? If I don't trust my team, I try to make sure a malicious teammate can't touch me, kind of being a bit paranoid! I adapt and try to deal with it, whining doesn't help, that's what the morons want to hear - the feedback they crave... Well, if it really sucks, I'd just leave and look for a different server. There are always idiots around but the sane players outweigh the few spoiled ones. So let's forget about those boneheads and concentrate on what really matters: FUN!!

All's fair online dude. If they don't like your techniques they can blow you. :)

It's all a form of play.

I don't mean to be offensive, but something is kinda wrong with TK-ing in UT. mostly because it can't really be stopped. When I'm on a server and being TK'd (especially when there is only one of them) I will sacrifice my services to the team to dedicate myself to dealing with the TK'er. Because frankly, they blow. I think that the best way to deal with that is an auto kick/ban option in the spiffy new Windows-esque Server tool. Autokicks for like 24hours or 60mins or what have...

Yes! Finally somebody agrees with my "if it's in the game, it's fair" philosophy. I can't stand it when people whine because somebody is taking all the good powerups all the time, using the redeemer, killing them with the "cheap newbie weapon", the flak cannon, and using multiple rockets to put someone away.

I've also come across some low-lifes who ranted about hating InstaGib and low grav, while flaming anyone who disagreed. Like the people you wrote about, he too was too narrow minded to avoid the situations. When will people ever learn?

Myself, I enjoy people who have those different playing styles that catch everybody off guard. There's nothing more satisfying than learning and killing the person that's doing it. If we all learn to adapt, we will all be better players.

Hey I just went to your site cause planetunreal had a little news thing on you and I read your view of "cheap" strategys. I completely agree. I've never actually done any impact-jumping, but I don't think it's cheap.

Spawn Camping is Great!!!

Especially when your ping is a lot lower than the poor b@stard that is spawning. There's nothing like the thrill you get when you realize that all he's probably seeing on his screen is "You Were Killed By..." three or four times in a row without being able to do anything about it. It's truly great.

And special kudos to those map designers that place spawn points in direct line of sight of the best sniping spots like in Face. Thank the maker that the map designer didn't move the spawn points a few feet closer to the razor jack or the snipers rifle where it would be a little protected by the building. And thank goodness they didn't stretch the asteroid a little further back behind the towers so that spawn points could be put back there.

As we all know, everyone on earth will have Very High Speed connections probably in the next few weeks so this whole business of complaining about low pingers sniping high pingers as they spawn will finally be buried. And good riddance to it.

MSACRAS : )

I agree with you completely, the one thing which I really hate though are campers in LMS, they find a nice place to hide and stay there and wait for the others to kill each other.

By the time it is me and him, he has 5 lives, and I only have one. They argue that it is not against the rules, and technically it isn't, but is is against the spirit of the game.

Campers are fine, spawn campers I can deal with, LMS cowards I don't like.

Like CliffyB said...more or less If it's in the game...It's in the game (sorry EA) hehe..In real life if it were possible to use this to your advantage you would right? Same in the game...and as far as normal campers go they don't bother me. They may get me a couple times but in the end...I usually kick their ass!

If its in the game, its legal!!!! Anybody who doesn't agree is probably the cheap one! Heck, I won't be modest. Among my circle of friends I'm one of the best (if not the best) UT player (specially when sniping) and it sometimes gets boring and all of them 'FEAR ME' a lot. However, they still love playing with me... why? Because of the extreme thrill they get when they finally kill me (specially when I didn't see them coming). And I also love to play with them 'cause they're quite good at adapting to my styles too and they frequently find a way to get a long string of kills against me without letting me get a point on them back. The frustration I feel when they spawn camp and do other 'unorthodox' techniques is overweighed by the satisfaction I get when I finally beat their strategy!! If a player can't adapt to the enemy, then he's not worth playing with anyway 'cause he'll just get so predictable and boring to play with, much like playing with godlike bots, only the bots most likely have better aim. If you don't like something don't whine about it. DEAL WITH IT!!!!

The way I see it.....When there is a respawn sniper, I beat him/her at their own game. About hammer jumping, well, guess you need to cover those areas dont you.

I must agree with your statements about jumping, launching and spawn camping. I noticed, that rookies normally call you a cheater if you jump because they can't do it but I now know a lot of people out there who really hate this spawn camping and are no rookies anymore. Take the big clans like NRG. They have the best players around in their clan and even they don't like the camping. It's up to you, but if the minority of people playing on a server don't want spawn killing, than you should switch the server. I played a lot with you now and i know that a lot of people in your own team tell you to stop and i think you're a real bitch if you don't stop or leave. You're no teammate either if you continue so its equal to make someone suicide because you don't follow the average style and thoughts of your team and TEAMPLAY is what Assault is all about. There are so many servers out there and you will find a lot of places where people won't complain.

Hi Eavy

With you 100% on AS.

The principal problem right now is that people have yet to 'learn' how to play this type of 'team' game.

One move which I am not sure about however is the Mazon Castle gate lock out so that when your enemy gets both chains it stays up!. I am really not sure if this was considered by the level designer but if it was there must be a way to 'defend' against it ie a way to either prevent it or rectify it once it is done ie with Guardia playing dead under the lift in the garage stops opponent getting up unless they i/h jump up (which is v difficult as you usually have been frag badly by this stage). But an attacker can realise this and simply blow you away for real! No way I have seen yet in Mazon for this?

Personally I think that AS is the first step towards much more complex team games which will require team play or die such as Halo. When people realise that as a specialist they can have just as much fun then it will be great. Until they realise this and learn as you explain so well, then AS is difficult as there are few servers with enough playes and players who cover the right bases. for instance I generally cover front gate jumpers in mazon But quite a few players use the rocket jump or i/h for the main side gate turrets and no one covers these.

Can I suggest two tips for AS (and other game types too). As you say play against bots to sharpen skills BUT also learn from the bots becasue they tend to work far better as a unit and defend sensible places (given they do not go in certain places). I learn quite a few tips from just ordering them to attack or defend and watching. Also another good way to learn from other more experienced players is to join a game and then select their number on the number pad and watch through their view. I saw how to i/h jump by doing this...........

There must be some way in which to reward not only good attacks but also good sustained defence. Really I almost value this as much as a win in a game when you have held Frigate or Overlord! (but then I am only 200+ on the rankings ;-)

Also were you as disappointed as me to see no AS maps with the bonus pack?

And I have yet to see how relics might be used in AS.

But above all AS is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! so a big 'Bow Down' to you........

I look forward to playing you one day.

Many thanks for the efforts on the site.

Gruesse

Simon

aka Moonraker*LuNa*

simonl@mac.com

Everyone prolly knows by now that I agree with EAvy on this topic. I even posted links to his web site on several posts I made regarding this topic, because he has irrefutable arguments to support himself.

On the other hand, my personal rule, and that of CiA is NO spawn-camping...because too many people don't like it...and I want everyone, on both teams, to enjoy the game to its fullest.

So, what we have here is apples/oranges. The arguments in support of spawncamping are those of 'facts' and 'the way it is,' those against it are arguments of 'feelings' and the 'psychology' of human needs and behaviours.

When dealing with an argument of this nature, there will never be a right and wrong opinion, because the two sides are trenched in completely different ideologies. It is a matter of which ideology is more important to each individual that will determine which 'side' of the argument they support.

I feel strongly about compassion to my fellow man, so I take the no spawncamping stance...tempered by the acknowledgement that the other 'camp' is actually correct in terms of logical argument.

Assault Rank 1
Rated Assault Guide
Advanced Assault Guide